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GoT s06e09

Sundays 9/8c on HBO
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CrckrJack
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GoT s06e09

Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:03 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the postOh my gosh, Gandalf, err I mean the Lord of the Vail army is here to save the day and easily surround the forces in eight seconds!!!

What a cop out, cliche'd ending. No battle tactics, just two dickheads charging each other like idiots and it happened to work out

It was really some awful writing. Some of the graphics were terrible, imo. Although there were a few parts that were awesome (some guy had his head cut off and he was still on his horse)
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Postby Tyler » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:06 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post What a cop out, cliche'd ending. No battle tactics, just two dickheads charging each other like idiots and it happened to work out

So...you did like it?
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Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:12 am

I'm not too happy with the writing at the end of this season. No one on the good side has died and everyone is getting warm cuddly feelings in their tummys.

And what could they even do in the next episode to ruin that???
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Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:18 am

I would've gotten up and cheered if they had killed Jon off a second time. Completely erased his storyline and made the whitewalkers spill down into the mainland and just f@#$ some shit up.

Instead they turned him into the worst leader ever. I wouldn't follow that guy into a Taco Bell, let alone battle. And everyone knows how much I love Taco Bell.
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Postby purple_hayes » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:35 am

cwilkins88 wrote:I would've gotten up and cheered if they had killed Jon off a second time. Completely erased his storyline and made the whitewalkers spill down into the mainland and just f@#$ some shit up.

Instead they turned him into the worst leader ever. I wouldn't follow that guy into a Taco Bell, let alone battle. And everyone knows how much I love Taco Bell.


So, you are judging this guy's ability to lead by his reaction to seeing his brother being shot arros at? Once Rickon is dead, you can see Jon realize what he had done. Leading is not always being right in every decision. I believe his greatest flaw in the battle is not heeding Sansa's advice nor seeking it out. You are seeing a major shift in the land. Women are taking important roles and the outcome of the 7 kingdoms may come down to the guile of women and not the brawn of man. You have Sansa in the North, you have Danearys and Yara teaming up in Mareen, and you have the power struggle in King's Landing between Cersei and Marjorie. And your logic should be questioned just saying you love Toxic Hell. You know they don't use real meat, right.
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Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:36 am

but women is dum
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Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:37 am

But seriously. Sansa's advice was awful. "Don't fall into his traps."

Like...

thanks?
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Postby purple_hayes » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:47 am

CrckrJack wrote:Source of the post I'm not too happy with the writing at the end of this season. No one on the good side has died and everyone is getting warm cuddly feelings in their tummys.

And what could they even do in the next episode to ruin that???


with ALL the pain the good guys have dealt with... don't you think they deserve a win here or there. Jon's victory was a Pyrrhic victory... most of the fighting men he had are wiped out. The wildlings have been decimated. He won't have enough people defend the North when the Knight King shows up. Plus, Sansa may have helped win the fight with the Knights of the Vail showing up, but we know what happens when Littlefinger is involved. My guess is that Littlefinger will want Sansa's hand in marriage. Dude is a snake. You couldn't let the bad guys win in this episode to further the storyline along.
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Postby purple_hayes » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:48 am

CrckrJack wrote:Source of the post But seriously. Sansa's advice was awful. "Don't fall into his traps."

Like...

thanks?


And yet, he fell right into Ramsey's trap. She knew he would do something to draw out Jon. He fell right into his trap. Had it not been for Sansa, Jon and the wildlings would all be dead.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:54 am

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post cwilkins88 wrote:
I would've gotten up and cheered if they had killed Jon off a second time. Completely erased his storyline and made the whitewalkers spill down into the mainland and just f@#$ some shit up.

Instead they turned him into the worst leader ever. I wouldn't follow that guy into a Taco Bell, let alone battle. And everyone knows how much I love Taco Bell.


So, you are judging this guy's ability to lead by his reaction to seeing his brother being shot arros at? Once Rickon is dead, you can see Jon realize what he had done. Leading is not always being right in every decision. I believe his greatest flaw in the battle is not heeding Sansa's advice nor seeking it out. You are seeing a major shift in the land. Women are taking important roles and the outcome of the 7 kingdoms may come down to the guile of women and not the brawn of man. You have Sansa in the North, you have Danearys and Yara teaming up in Mareen, and you have the power struggle in King's Landing between Cersei and Marjorie. And your logic should be questioned just saying you love Toxic Hell. You know they don't use real meat, right.


Yes actually, you didn't see the Blackfish buckle when they threatened the next in line for the place. He defended his place and his people the best way he knew how. He didn't vault over the wall and try to stab Jamie. Jon acted irrationally even after being advised that Ramsey had his brother and he would kill him. Literally the day before. Yes, he was pissed off, but he has also been patient the entire show.
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Postby Tyler » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:00 am

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post My guess is that Littlefinger will want Sansa's hand in marriage. Dude is a snake.

I think he did it just to earn Sansa's trust back. He basically threw her to the wolves when he married her off to Ramsey and I think he does feel bad for that. Littlefinger's plot is basically how he gets so close to gaining power, but his love for the Stark women get in the way. Read the note Sansa wrote to Littlefinger, it is basically "you f'ed me. Come save our butts because you owe me".
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Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:04 am

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the postYou couldn't let the bad guys win in this episode to further the storyline along.

Sure you could have. It just would have been different than what it will be now.
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Postby purple_hayes » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:11 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post
purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post cwilkins88 wrote:

Yes actually, you didn't see the Blackfish buckle when they threatened the next in line for the place. He defended his place and his people the best way he knew how. He didn't vault over the wall and try to stab Jamie. Jon acted irrationally even after being advised that Ramsey had his brother and he would kill him. Literally the day before. Yes, he was pissed off, but he has also been patient the entire show.


I will admit, it was not Jon's best moment. But in the end, the only story that will be told is how Jon won the battle of the bastards not his blunder of falling into Ramsey's trap. He will be remembered as being an amazing warrior and winner of battles. That is what people will follow.
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Postby ritterc » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:42 am

Ok - for the record - Ramsay did shoot a volley at Jon after Jon finally looked up and away from Rickon. The burning crosses were likely range indicators for the archers to know how high to arch the volley. But, if you notice, they shoot to the first cross which is behind Jon. They were likely expecting him to retreat to his troops, but he knew he was boned and made an emotional call and instead charges their forces knowing he had no way out.

You can't argue with me that his face said, "Shit, I totally messed up and it's all over now" before he rushed their lines.

Now...I loved the episode from a T.V. show standpoint. The cinematography was incredible during the fight scenes. The storylines were good. The battle was good. It wasn't bad writing - Ramsay doesn't give a shit about his people or his army, which is why he fought them in the open. He is cocky and always has been - and he wanted the respect of the people of the North. Hiding inside Winterfell for weeks/months/years defending against a siege does not show bravery to a North that you are trying to unite by fear. Circling everyone into the middle of a death pit and killing every last person without taking survivors, though, definitely does.

And Tim and Chris, not to call you out, but the Knights of the Vale haven't fought for anyone but themselves for YEARS as they talked about in earlier episodes in the season. There's no way that anyone in the WORLD would have know they would come to Sansa's aid, because Sansa never told ANYONE about her and Littlefinger's agreement. Not even Bree'ann or however you spell her name. So in the grand scheme of things, Ramsay all but had that battle won.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID.

I loved it from a T.V. standpoint, but I'm sad from a Game of Thrones standpoint. That episode was not Game of Thrones enough. Every time you think you know what's going to happen (in the past) you get destroyed. Remember those feels during the Red Wedding? I thought they were close when Jon was going to die a meaningless death by trample from his own people, and Tormund looked like he was going to die, but then they saved them both.
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Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:50 am

I have to rewatch the sequence, because I didn't think he even shot at Jon at all.

I would like to think that even if I had 2x the army of my enemy that I would still let them try and siege my castle with literally no siege equipment.
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Re: GoT s06e09

Postby Tyler » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:13 am

Great points critter on the range indicators and Jon going forward ahead of the arrows vs retreating and getting hit
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Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:27 am

ritterc wrote:Source of the post nd Tim and Chris, not to call you out, but the Knights of the Vale haven't fought for anyone but themselves for YEARS as they talked about in earlier episodes in the season. There's no way that anyone in the WORLD would have know they would come to Sansa's aid, because Sansa never told ANYONE about her and Littlefinger's agreement. Not even Bree'ann or however you spell her name. So in the grand scheme of things, Ramsay all but had that battle won


Oh, I know. I never said it was obvious from a show perspective. It's just stupid as hell how they did it. They could have come after the calvary was all dead and then been strategic about everything. It didn't have to be a literal circle fight after they were screwed.
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Postby wags83 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:33 am

CrckrJack wrote:Source of the post with literally no siege equipment.

Except for a muthafuckin' GIANT!
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Postby Watson2000 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:53 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Can we talk about how bad this episode was? Everyone seems to be so engrossed in the fact that it was bloody and high budget to realize how terrible it actually was.

This honestly reminded me of an episode of the 100. A bunch of whining back and forth between the main characters per war strategy. Everything is decided. Convenient plot device located in the middle of nowhere. SOMETHING UNEXPECTED!!! THE PLAN IS FALLING APART BECAUSE THE MAIN CHARACTER CANT HANDLE IT EVEN THOUGH HE EXPECTED IT ACTUALLY!!!!!

If my leader charged in the middle of a field to attack a superior army when he had prepped all of us to wait for them to charge, I would've left his ass to die. What a stupid thing for a typically calm and patient person.

Okay, we have the dumb as horse charge, and Ramsey decides to kill most of his own horses, arguably his biggest weapon. Okay, maybe his mistake will help. NOPE!!! Let's all charge the people in full body armor and 50 pound shields, and even though we are faster in every way, lets let them surround us. BTW, the battle was over here, but for some reason they just stopped pushing forward? Terrible.

Oh my gosh, Gandalf, err I mean the Lord of the Vail army is here to save the day and easily surround the forces in eight seconds!!!

What a cop out, cliche'd ending. No battle tactics, just two dickheads charging each other like idiots and it happened to work out


Exactly! I had this all written out and thought that it was too long, so went with "odd tactics". Glad I wasn't the only one that that this battle was stupid... Could of been so much better.
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Postby Watson2000 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:58 am

CrckrJack wrote:Source of the post I have to rewatch the sequence, because I didn't think he even shot at Jon at all.

I would like to think that even if I had 2x the army of my enemy that I would still let them try and siege my castle with literally no siege equipment.


Tim, Ramsey couldn't sit in Winterfell, he had to get rid of the only two left not under his control that could take the north from him...and odds are, he could do it easily. And we've gotten to know that there is no way Ramsey would of sat around while someone was claiming the north right outside it door....

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