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Altered carbon

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purple_hayes
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Altered carbon

Postby purple_hayes » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post
purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post
Tyler wrote:Source of the post How does everyone automatically have one? When a baby is born do they implant it with one right away? I guess everyone that doesn't have one eventually dies off and only people left are those with it?


I believe that this is explained in the books... that at a certain age, they download the consciousness into a stack and is implanted into the sleeve. I want to say at 4. As in the beginning, you have a 7 year old girl given a 50 year old body because the family can't afford a proper sleeve.



They actually explain this in one of the episodes. I think it's at age 4 or 6, a stack is required to be implanted in everyone and your memories/etc are downloaded at that point. It would be too messed up to transplant a 3month old etc into a new body.


yeah, I can't remember which one it's in. messed up that little girl was put in that old lady's body in the first episode. totally messed up... but at least she can drink now
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Altered carbon

Postby purple_hayes » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:29 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post
purple_hayes wrote:First, they are showing you other planets, you must have missed that detail. Second, yes Oretega knew Ryker, and they explained what his body was doing in prison already, you must have missed it.


At the end of Episode 4, i think they've only alluded to it at that point. They do more backstory on why it happens, but the gist is that he went crazy and killed a cop.


I thought Tak confronted Ortega at the end of ep4, that is where she explains a bit more as to what happened to Ryker.
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Re: Altered carbon

Postby Tyler » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am

Ep4 is what I watched last night. That is when she admits she knows Ryker and he was a cop, if she said what happened to him then I somehow completely missed it. Maybe the conversation continues into #5 and you guys are just spoiling everything for me
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Postby Tyler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:59 am

Everyone was making me feel dumb in this thread yesterday for not knowing more about Ryker, but it turns out ep5 is when you learn all of that stuff!

Ep5
The neo-nazi actor that has played the grandma and then the Russian(?) is amazing.

What the heck was that device used to grab pieces of Ortega?! There are more effective ways to torture/kill someone? That was disgusting.

For my own sanity I am going to try to outline everything that was revealed in this episode. Ryker says they are all connected, but I am still working on that.
1. Ghost guy probably killed the lady in the water. Ryker knew her from his childhood. This case drove him mad.
2. Ryker was interviewing someone, but they were killed by Russian VR torture guy. That death was pinned on Ryker and he was locked up/executed?
3. Bancroft's son has a human 3D printer. He has been impersonating his father in secret. The son used the dad sleeve to take out the gun and tried to murder his father. He wants to take over as dad and rule the family empire.

I don't think I'll be spoiled by asking this...the Russian torture guy and the guy who was killed at The Raven in the first episode. They were "double-sleeved". Does that mean 1 person is copied and put into 2 sleeves? It seems like Raven version knew Tak was Tak, but Torture version thought Tak was still Ryker.

Lastly, it seems the religious cult is also playing a role in this. So they can't spin up lady in the water because she converted. Ryker said he knew her and she wouldn't have done that, someone must have converted her. Ortega said there is a history of murder victims being recent converters, so they can't spin them back up to ask about their death. I wonder what the "conversation" process is. Must be more than just a waiver, they must be altering the code of the stack so it can't be turned on.

One final thing. Tak finds Ortega bleeding to death in the elevator. Really there is no threat at this point? If she dies they can just put her in a new sleeve since her stack is intact, the same can't be said about her partner. Don't get me wrong though, I may have to riot if Ortega gets a new sleeve at this point.
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Postby wags83 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 am

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Does that mean 1 person is copied and put into 2 sleeves?

Yeah it's basically that your stack is copied and you can be in 2 different sleeves at the same time. It comes up again later and is pretty trippy. It's like both sleeves are the same person but each have their own consciousness, it isn't one mind controlling 2 bodies.
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Must be more than just a waiver, they must be altering the code of the stack so it can't be turned on.

That's my assumption too. They do mention "religious coding" at a couple different points when referring to converts, so it must actually block the stack from being spun back up.

I only have one episode left. This show is super entertaining. One thing that I've been wondering about is in regard to something that was said early on (maybe 1st or 2nd episode). They mention that if you change sleeves too often, it makes you go crazy, unless the sleeve is your own clone. What's the threshold for going crazy from changing sleeves? Seems like a lot of people have changed quite often and there doesn't seem to be consequences yet.
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Re: Altered carbon

Postby Tyler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:52 am

Interesting wags. I do remember that and assumed that's why the rich do clones. We have only seen Tak be in 2 sleeves, but don't Envoys have like a super power where they can resleeve and be okay?
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Postby purple_hayes » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:41 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Everyone was making me feel dumb in this thread yesterday for not knowing more about Ryker, but it turns out ep5 is when you learn all of that stuff!


Sorry
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Re: RE: Altered carbon

Postby Tyler » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:54 pm

purple_hayes wrote:
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Everyone was making me feel dumb in this thread yesterday for not knowing more about Ryker, but it turns out ep5 is when you learn all of that stuff!


Sorry
I still love you. Like Wilkins said before, this basically plays out like a movie so if you binged it all it would be hard to know what episode discussed what.
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Altered carbon

Postby purple_hayes » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:02 pm

wags83 wrote:Source of the post
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Does that mean 1 person is copied and put into 2 sleeves?

Yeah it's basically that your stack is copied and you can be in 2 different sleeves at the same time. It comes up again later and is pretty trippy. It's like both sleeves are the same person but each have their own consciousness, it isn't one mind controlling 2 bodies.


Yes, the twins are a double sleeve... he copied his own stack, then put it into a sleeve. Creating a copy of himself, where it becomes a totally new personality, your experiences and memories will split from the time of being copied. They become two separate people. In this case, he felt he was two different people and needed to be copied. Its illegal to do.

wags83 wrote:
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Must be more than just a waiver, they must be altering the code of the stack so it can't be turned on.

That's my assumption too. They do mention "religious coding" at a couple different points when referring to converts, so it must actually block the stack from being spun back up.

I only have one episode left. This show is super entertaining. One thing that I've been wondering about is in regard to something that was said early on (maybe 1st or 2nd episode). They mention that if you change sleeves too often, it makes you go crazy, unless the sleeve is your own clone. What's the threshold for going crazy from changing sleeves? Seems like a lot of people have changed quite often and there doesn't seem to be consequences yet.
► Show Spoiler


Its not a cult... its a religion. They are Catholic. The church believes you are given one life, it should end after. The Government codes your stack to show you are Neo-C, or new Catholic, so that if your sleeve is found murdered or dead, they won't resleeve you. The conversation between Ortega and her mother making dinner speaks of a Propostion 653, her Mother is against it, but Ortega is for it. The Proposition allows the police to resleeve a dead Neo-C for the purposes of testifying against their own killer. A casual coversation at the Ortega table in two different episodes one with her Mom and another with her resleeved Grandmother, but very important to the consequences of the show.

yeah, they mention several times about possibly going crazy if you switch sleeves, in fact when some get resleeved, they mention 'sleeve sickness'. But really, they change sleeves at will in the show without much consequence. Further insight, but don't want to spoil for Tyler:
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Postby wags83 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:11 pm

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post
yeah, they mention several times about possibly going crazy if you switch sleeves, in fact when some get resleeved, they mention 'sleeve sickness'. But really, they change sleeves at will in the show without much consequence. Further insight, but don't want to spoil for Tyler:
► Show Spoiler

Ah ok, I guess I didn't realize needlecasting and resleeving didn't have the same affects. That makes more sense now.
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Altered carbon

Postby Watson2000 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:29 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post
Watson is never going to post here again after everyone mocked him.


Of course I will. Finished it. Still think it's a Westworld wanna be with the camera shots and story boarding. I enjoyed it. Would of liked it better with a different lead actor, he reminded me too much of an 80's action film bad guy. Still waiting for an explanation as too why the galaxy thinks Envoys are such great detectives. Have other questions, but those have spoilers in them I guess. Looking forward to season 2.
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Postby wags83 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:32 pm

Watson2000 wrote:Source of the post he reminded me too much of an 80's action film bad guy.

Oh man, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I got a huge Dolph Lundgren vibe from him.
Watson2000 wrote:Source of the post Still waiting for an explanation as too why the galaxy thinks Envoys are such great detectives.

I was curious about this as well. I was willing to accept it early on in the show, but the more we learned about Envoys, the less incredible they seemed. Seems like they are highly trained soldiers, not super detectives.

I still like the show though.
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Re: Altered carbon

Postby Tyler » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:41 pm

I thought the same thing wags. It was totally the hair.
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Postby Tyler » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:51 am

ep06
Tyler wrote:Source of the post One final thing. Tak finds Ortega bleeding to death in the elevator. Really there is no threat at this point? If she dies they can just put her in a new sleeve since her stack is intact, the same can't be said about her partner. Don't get me wrong though, I may have to riot if Ortega gets a new sleeve at this point.

Tak covers this by explaining Ortega is from a religious family and she wouldn't want to be put into a new body, but she isn't actually Neo-C so kind of a weak argument.

This is at least 350 years into the future and people are still driving their own cars? That is something we won't even have during our lifetime.

I thought the fight in the pits with Tak and Ortega was very bad. The fighting didn't look convincing at all, especially when Ortega was using her new bionic arm to stop someone 5x her size. It was obvious that he wasn't putting any pressure on her. Shaky cam and quick cuts didn't help either. This is miles away from Daredevil fight stuff

Tak = Sherlock Holmes with the flowers. This is actually the first time I've seen proof that he is more than just a super soldier and can make a good detective. Oretga standing up to her boss was good too.

Poe is doing so well with Elliot's daughter, he was an idiot for going in there and ruining the progress.

FYI: there are too different Asian Taks. I am not going crazy
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542677/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t25
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498449/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
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Postby Tyler » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:59 am

ep07
Wilkins warned me this would be a flashback episode so I was at least prepared for that, but I wasn't for the extra long episode length.

I think the backstory with Rei and Tak was good. Learning the starter of Envoys was also the creator of stacks was interesting, but the episode didn't do much for me otherwise.

Tak gets recruited by a government program that kills after he kills his father as a kid, sure. Makes sense. They lie and sell his sister into slavery and she ends up working for the mob. 25 years later their paths cross and now they are both super duper killers and kill everyone. Ehh..I guess I can buy this, they are back on the same planet after all. They need to go hide, how about that cave they use to play in as kids? What? Oh jk jk, the cave is actually the hideout of a super secret terrorist operation now. And guess what, you just got recruited.

The plot twist that Rei killed Quell wasn't a mind blowing twist to me. I didn't see it coming, but it didnt shatter my world or anything. I know Quell will show up eventually in this series again and I am not looking forward to it. I do not like her character at all.

Overall I thought 06 and 07 were weak episodes. Good parts in both, but overall a decline in quality compared to the first half.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:24 am

Tyler wrote:Source of the post ep07
Wilkins warned me this would be a flashback episode so I was at least prepared for that, but I wasn't for the extra long episode length.

I think the backstory with Rei and Tak was good. Learning the starter of Envoys was also the creator of stacks was interesting, but the episode didn't do much for me otherwise.

Tak gets recruited by a government program that kills after he kills his father as a kid, sure. Makes sense. They lie and sell his sister into slavery and she ends up working for the mob. 25 years later their paths cross and now they are both super duper killers and kill everyone. Ehh..I guess I can buy this, they are back on the same planet after all. They need to go hide, how about that cave they use to play in as kids? What? Oh jk jk, the cave is actually the hideout of a super secret terrorist operation now. And guess what, you just got recruited.

The plot twist that Rei killed Quell wasn't a mind blowing twist to me. I didn't see it coming, but it didnt shatter my world or anything. I know Quell will show up eventually in this series again and I am not looking forward to it. I do not like her character at all.

Overall I thought 06 and 07 were weak episodes. Good parts in both, but overall a decline in quality compared to the first half.


Damn, really. I watched episode 7 in two sittings. But i loved it. It was interesting to see Tak be so absolutely brainwashed by both sets of militant groups, but he always seems so level headed when he's in the future. It just makes me interested to see how much a person really does change.

It was a coincidence for sure on the caves thing, but I just let it go, because it was neat.
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Postby Tyler » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:13 pm

ep8
Ortega is able to kill 8 envoys, is she the most badass person in this universe now?

I am uncomfortable how obsessed Rei is with her brother...

I'm not sure what the telescope montage was about. Tak seems to have connected all the dots...just after he made up an entire fake story about the murder. I am sure the dots will be connected so dummies like me can follow it better.
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Postby Tyler » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:27 pm

ep9
Tyler wrote:Source of the post I am sure the dots will be connected so dummies like me can follow it better.

Yep. I feel like everything has been connected in a pretty satisfying way. The sex palace in the sky is horrible and I hope next episode ends with it crashing to the ground. Poor women thinking they are going to be killed and put into a new sleeve.

Poe: We're friends?!

I liked the Taks playing paper rock scissors and you not immediately knowing which one went away on the sex planet and which one stayed. I'm glad the original one stayed, but of course he did.

Ortega's family :( Her and Tak can't have a happy ending now

Elliot's daughter is going to save Ortega somehow from the VR thing next episode. That's my official prediction
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Postby Tyler » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am

Ep10. Finale
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Elliot's daughter is going to save Ortega somehow from the VR thing next episode. That's my official prediction

I was right, but it didn't happen how I thought. Lizzie said she was venturing out into the VR world so I thought she would save Ortega while in VR, I didn't think she would be needlecasted up to the ship and save everyone that way. It was awesome though.

RIP Poe. None of our heroes died for real. Even when Tak had his emotional death they just spun him back up 30 seconds later. Didn't even have time to react to it in the show. Not Poe though, that AI seems to be dead for good...until he is somehow Tak's sidekick in season 2.

I wanted Ortega and Tak to work out, but of course they couldn't. Idc what Ortega said, she only had feelings for Tak because of the sleeve. She deserve a happy ending with Ryker and Tak isn't going to want her now that he knows Quell is 'alive'.

Satisfying ending for the guy that killed Ortega's family and tortured her.
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Postby Tyler » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am

Season thoughts
Overall I thought the show was pretty good. It won't be the best thing I've seen on TV this year, but I am sure it will be in the top half. The entire show looked amazing. Really sets the bar high for what you can do on TV with sets/visuals. I think the story got clunky at times and there was a some fat that could have been trimmed. I will for sure watch s02.

Questions for next season, but I think there is s02 news out there that can answer some of these.

Think Tak was put back into his old sleeve, the one from the pit fight?
Will Ryker/Ortega be in the show still and solve crimes together?

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