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Postby Tag » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:22 am

I guess this is probably impossible not to turn political but I am genuinely curious what people think about the gun debate.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:00 am

I guess I'm on the stance that I don't like little kids getting shot, so fixing that would be nice

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Postby Tyler » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:02 am

Do I preemptively lock this thread because I want to protect this forum from fighting with each other...?

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Postby wags83 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:49 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post I guess I'm on the stance that I don't like little kids getting shot, so fixing that would be nice

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I agree!

Seriously though, something needs to change. No, I don't want to ban all guns. No, I don't want to confiscate guns that people own legally. Yes, I do want it to be harder for a 19-year-old, depressed kid with ties to a white supremacy group and a history of threatening people to get a semi-automatic assault rifle (or any gun for that matter).

A lot of people are suggesting having armed guards at schools. I don't hate that idea, we just need to be able to fund it since it seems school funding is already strained as it is. I don't like the idea of giving "specially trained" teachers guns in the classroom, I feel like that puts too much extra pressure on those teachers. These solutions, however, only address school shooting and don't address all the other gun violence we have in the country.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:51 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post I don't like the idea of giving "specially trained" teachers guns in the classroom, I feel like that puts too much extra pressure on those teachers.


The thing I hate about this idea most is that if we can't even afford a budget to buy teachers art supplies, then are we going to make them buy their own glock too?
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Postby wags83 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post
wags83 wrote:Source of the post I don't like the idea of giving "specially trained" teachers guns in the classroom, I feel like that puts too much extra pressure on those teachers.


The thing I hate about this idea most is that if we can't even afford a budget to buy teachers art supplies, then are we going to make them buy their own glock too?

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Postby Corey » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:58 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post I guess I'm on the stance that I don't like little kids getting shot, so fixing that would be nice

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I agree!

Seriously though, something needs to change. No, I don't want to ban all guns. No, I don't want to confiscate guns that people own legally. Yes, I do want it to be harder for a 19-year-old, depressed kid with ties to a white supremacy group and a history of threatening people to get a semi-automatic assault rifle (or any gun for that matter).

A lot of people are suggesting having armed guards at schools. I don't hate that idea, we just need to be able to fund it since it seems school funding is already strained as it is. I don't like the idea of giving "specially trained" teachers guns in the classroom, I feel like that puts too much extra pressure on those teachers. These solutions, however, only address school shooting and don't address all the other gun violence we have in the country.

They had an armed guard and it didn't work:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/us/n ... oting.html
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Postby wags83 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:25 am

Corey wrote:Source of the post They had an armed guard and it didn't work:

I've seen this. I guess I'm not clear on the specifics of what this guy's role was. Was he a guard specifically stationed at the school for security or a cop that responded first? I've only seen the title "sheriff's deputy". I guess it's hard to say how even someone who's trained for these situations will react.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:04 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post
Corey wrote:Source of the post They had an armed guard and it didn't work:

I've seen this. I guess I'm not clear on the specifics of what this guy's role was. Was he a guard specifically stationed at the school for security or a cop that responded first? I've only seen the title "sheriff's deputy". I guess it's hard to say how even someone who's trained for these situations will react.


He was guarding the school. I'm angry that he pussed out, but I also get how a PERSON could do it. Then I get mad because he was there to protect kids.
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Postby wags83 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:10 am

Yeah, I go back and forth in my mind on the guy. The angry part of me wants to call him a coward and place blame on him that it didn't end sooner. But I also get that I've never been in a situation like that and can't say for sure what I would have done. I like to think I would try to be heroic, but who knows.
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Postby Tyler » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:07 pm

I think we should be arming both students and teachers. /s
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Postby DannyFanny » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:28 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post I think we should be arming both students and teachers. /s


Every school is now a military school.
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Postby blake » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:46 pm

Not a fan of guns but I understand there are lot of responsible gun owners

Background checks, ban assault rifles, raise age limit, mentally ill shouldn't have access to guns. Teachers being armed is a joke
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Postby Artukka » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:50 pm

For a long time I was pretty ambivalent on gun control, seeing mass shootings and gun crime as more of a wedge issue and distraction than something that can be realistically addressed... but it's possible we'll eventually reach some sort of tipping point, and I hope we do.

Though I personally doubt "half measures" like restrictions on the kinds of guns or firearm accessories people can legally buy, more and better background checks, etc. will prevent us from having to confront these headlines every few weeks. Those kinds of things may prevent the odd shooting here and there, or reduce the number of people killed in others so I do support them, but if we were really serious about solving the problem we'd do what's apparently been largely effective in heading off this problem in other countries -- heavily regulate gun ownership (to the degree that the 2nd amendment would likely have to be stricken from the Constitution, or dramatically reinterpreted by the Supreme Court).

I don't like the idea of paring down the Bill of Rights, or weakening it as a general principle (which is another reason for my ambivalence), but I honestly don't think the "right to bear arms" is doing us much good or that it ever will -- it's almost certainly not enough doing enough good to offset the harm that's been done that's so strongly correlated with the availability of firearms (both legally and illegally) in our country. I'm at the point now where I'd say, yes, I do want to take away your guns, and pretty much all of them. I don't mean anything personal by it, but I value the lives of the innocent people and children who will be killed in the next three dozen of these events far more than I value anything positive that I can attribute to our lax gun laws.
Last edited by Artukka on Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby cwilkins88 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:10 pm

Artukka wrote:Source of the post For a long time I was pretty ambivalent on gun control, seeing mass shootings and gun crime as more of a wedge issue and distraction than something that can be realistically addressed... but it's possible we'll eventually reach some sort of tipping point, and I hope we do.

Though I personally doubt "half measures" like restrictions on the kinds of guns or firearm accessories people can legally buy, more and better background checks, etc. will prevent us from having to confront these headlines every few weeks. Those kinds of things may prevent the odd shooting here and there, or reduce the number of people killed in others so I do support them, but if we were really serious about solving the problem we'd do what's apparently been largely effective in heading off this problem in other countries -- heavily regulate gun ownership (to the degree that the 2nd amendment would likely have to be stricken from the Constitution, or dramatically reinterpreted by the Supreme Court).

I don't like the idea of paring down the Bill of Rights, or weakening it as a general principle (which is another reason for my ambivalence), but I honestly don't think the "right to bear arms" is doing us much good or that it ever will -- it's almost certainly not enough doing enough good to offset the harm that's been done that's so strongly correlated with the availability of firearms (both legally and illegally) in our country. I'm at the point now where I'd say, yes, I do want to take away your guns, and pretty much all of them. I don't mean anything personal by it, but I value the lives of the innocent people and children who will be killed in the three dozen of these events far more than I value anything positive that I can attribute with our lax gun laws.



I agree with this a lot. I understand the need to protect your rights, but kids are dying. I like the idea of being able to accomplish both, but im just not sure thats feasible. I think one of the major causes for a lot of these is the defunding of public schools and the wealthy moving to the suburbs. It takes away money from the inner-city schools and then basically centralizes a huge population of poor, angry, neglected children. Maybe it's not the sole cause, but it definitely doesn't help.

I wish the CDC ban on research would go away so that we could attempt to solve the problem.
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Postby wags83 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:38 pm

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post I wish the CDC ban on research would go away so that we could attempt to solve the problem.

This would be a great first step.
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Postby bmyoungs » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:04 pm

The fact that we are looking back on a 200 year old "right to beat arms" statement as the reason for protecting gun ownership is a joke. When that was written there were mussel loaders and you could kill with a knife in combat just as if not more effectively.

We need to limit what type of guns people can open and how they are obtained.

On a somewhere related note mental health needs to be a priority for the public as well.

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Postby Huss Buss » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:18 pm

i think the problem is people don't care about life at all, and think it is ok to kill.
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Postby JocelynJane » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:36 pm

This topic keeps me up at night, and I'm not sure that I can adequately speak on my opinions of each facet of it without getting on my soapbox a little bit too much. But I can say this:

The argument that teachers should be armed might actually be the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Like, it actually makes me angry to my core. First of all, ask most teachers if they WANT to carry a firearm in their classroom. Does that not matter? My hunch is that you will hear a resounding "eff no". Second, if teachers did want to carry a weapon, can we guarantee that they won't be used inappropriately? Without going down a rabbit hole on this one, let's just remember that racist roots still run deep in our country... That could be inviting unfortunate mistakes in urban schools and beyond. A little insight on school funding: allowable growth is the percentage increase in school aid funds determined by the state. In order to keep up with inflation and increasing needs, schools typically budget for a 4-6% increase... Which is usually what is necessary to avoid cuts. Guess what Iowa came up with last year? 1.1%. So, where's the funding for firearms, ammo, and training come from? We can't fund schools enough to simply maintain teacher salaries and class sizes, but there's money for glocks! In my position, I'm in charge of leading staff in weekly professional development. This is learning around best practice and strategies to improve student learning. Am I going to need to give up that time to allow teachers to train to carry and effectively use a gun? Oh, and by the way, ask kids if they feel safer in an environment where they know their teacher either carries or has easy access to a gun. Talk about being desensitized to violence and gun culture... I could go on. Can you tell this gets me fired up?!?!

Also: kids need to stop dying. People with histories of violence and mental illness should have a little more difficulty getting their hands on guns. Enough is enough.

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Re: School

Postby Tyler » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:48 pm


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