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Westworld - s02e10

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Tyler
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:24 pm

Haven't finished yet and will have a lot to say tomorrow, but wanted to create the thread.

My thought process seeing the forge door open up in the physical world - this is dumb as shit
Felix and Sylvester not seeing the door - okay, this is neat
The Ghost Nation guy running through and his body falling away - this is awesome!
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:27 am

That was the densest episode of TV I've ever watched, and it was even 90 minutes. There were so many moving parts, characters, and timelines to keep straight. I feel like I left understanding 60% of it. I liked a lot of it, but I think the finale could have been stronger if they had a more traditional timeline throughout the season. The "I need to scramble my brain so Hale doesn't know my plan" was actually the show writers saying "I need to scramble the season to keep Reddit from guessing the ending again". Now here are some random thoughts of the episode:

Teddy living was dumb. We have seen gunshots to hosts' heads destroy their cores, but turns out the shell around the core is 100% bulletproof at pointblank range.

Dolores must have watched the finale of TWD. Her and Eugene had the same plan with the backfiring guns, except it is even dumber in this context. That was a spent bullet. It had already been fired when Teddy shot himself. How would it have backfired?!

The Forge system taking the form of Logan was neat I guess.

Lee's redemption story was one of the best things of this season. He was such a buffoon last season, but he really grew into the hero. He wrote Hector to be the man he wish he was and at the end he got to take the role of Hector and become that man. I think he could have probably talked it out with that remaining guard, but he wanted to follow things through the way Hector would have.

I don't think Stubbs is a host. He is a human who is loyal to ford and was being cute with his explanation of it.

Zombie Clem was always cool, but her purpose made no sense. If Hale and the humans had the ability to reprogram her and have her take control of the hosts, why wouldn't they just have her shut down hosts? Have her walk by and hosts just drop to the ground. Forcing them to fight each other is pretty silly. Also it seemed woke hosts weren't effected by her, but was replacement Maeve ever woke?

The emotional beats worked for me. Elsie dying. Maeve seeing her daughter again and getting her through the door. Aketcheta getting through the door and finding his wife. No clue how she got there, but I won't over think it.

Felix is going to bring Maeve back for sure, assuming she wasn't in one of the 5 cores that Dolores took with her.

Why the heck did Dolores bring Bernard into the real world? It's like she is Magneto and she needs her Professor X. She saved him just so he could try to stop her?

Big questions I still have. Child Ford in one of the first episodes this season told William the game was for him. He may have even said the door was for him. Clearly that wasn't true, the door was for the hosts to "escape" into their own world.

End Credit Scene
MIB is eventually a host in this scene, but I think it takes place years (decades?) after the events of s02. Supposedly there is an interview with Lisa Joy where she said MIB all season long was indeed human, other than the end credit scene.
EDIT: Found the interview
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby CrckrJack » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:19 am

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Teddy living was dumb. We have seen gunshots to hosts' heads destroy their cores, but turns out the shell around the core is 100% bulletproof at pointblank range.

When did we see this? I expected his core to be fine. They couldn't have gone around replacing cores whenever someone got shot in the head.

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Dolores must have watched the finale of TWD. Her and Eugene had the same plan with the backfiring guns, except it is even dumber in this context. That was a spent bullet. It had already been fired when Teddy shot himself. How would it have backfired?!

It was even more stupid because he had been shooting at the guards already. I guess it could have backfired then and she still would have been fine. But yeah there's no way it would have made his gun explode.

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Lee's redemption story was one of the best things of this season. He was such a buffoon last season, but he really grew into the hero. He wrote Hector to be the man he wish he was and at the end he got to take the role of Hector and become that man. I think he could have probably talked it out with that remaining guard, but he wanted to follow things through the way Hector would have.

I thought his character changed too much and that was just dumb how he died.

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Elsie dying.

This was sad and also unexpected.
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Re: Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:25 am

In response to when we saw Teddy's core. After she was done spooning his head body she was messing around with the back of his head. She pulled out the white unit and there was a bullet splattered on it, like they do with bullet proof vests. She took the bullet off
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby CrckrJack » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:34 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post In response to when we saw Teddy's core. After she was done spooning his head body she was messing around with the back of his head. She pulled out the white unit and there was a bullet splattered on it, like they do with bullet proof vests. She took the bullet off

Right
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:01 am

This episode was well thought out, and had a lot of moving parts...and it wasn't very good. A lot of time was spent scrambling Bernards brain so that nobody knew what was going on, but all it did was give the writers leeway to do whatever the hell they wanted to. They basically took the easy way out of this finale, and what worse is that the audience saw it coming, even with with all their tricks.

What I mean by this - If you see a show with zero main character kill-offs, and then suddenly everyone dies - it's going to be reset or at least partially.

Other dumb things:
1) Maeve's lap dog had the stupidest death. That's my speech. Okay, cool and all, but they already escaped. Throw down the gun maybe, or should i say MAEVEY.
2) Nothing in shogun world mattered and they didn't pretend that people from the other worlds were going to try and hit these invisible canyon buttcracks and try to escape.
3) Essentially, we had an entire episode of the Ghost Tribe backstory, just so one of them could grab a girls back and lead her into a door. You know what else they could have tried? Moving forward. If Maeve can hear the little girl from anywhere, and raise them from the dead anywhere, then i have two followups to this:
a) why didn't she just say, hey daughter not daughter, can you please walk through the invisible crevice and gtfo of here?
b) instead of using the matrix to freeze everyone and get shot to death...why didn't she just like...idk, have them walk to the opening instead?
c) also, did she think if she could hold out with bullets more often that suddenly everything was going to change?
4) Why is delores suddenly wearing 150 bullet proof vests due to sheer willpower, but Maeve topples over like wet kleenexes. Maeve was 50% way more woke than Delores.
5) Why did they beam a server into space. Where did it go? Mars? They said nobody would ever find it, so its probably just Superman's phantom zone. I totally buy this.
6) They went so out of their way to show that the backups were deleted, so everything is final, just to be like, HAHA F U, none of this matters.
7) Why did Elsie's personality change right before she got front poked by a 9mm? She was standing up, then was like, but sursly, bribes accepted.
a) Follow-up. If Batman lady, future Delores, has read Elsie's profile, the most boring person in the whole universe, we're expected to believe she
didn't read Bernards to find out he's different. IDK, this seemed dumb to me.
8) Did nobody see bear and asian nice hair guy helping Maeve? Or like a camera? Seems obvious that someone would know they went traitor WITH THE PERSON THEY ARE STANDING NEXT TO. "Hey guys, seriously, don't revive THIS one"
9) flat nosed security guard was dumb. They completely changed his personality in that last scene. So Dumb.


So, I guess I liked the MiB testing. And idk, the cinematography was great as always.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby wags83 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:19 am

I haven't finished the episode yet, but this is another episode of annoying gun play.
1.) 2 people with old timey revolvers riding in on horses are not going to be able to take out 4 people with the cover of their vehivle and futuristic, fully automatic assault rifles
2.) I'm pretty sure a spent bullet doesn't work that way
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:25 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post 1.) 2 people with old timey revolvers riding in on horses are not going to be able to take out 4 people with the cover of their vehivle and futuristic, fully automatic assault rifles


Omg, this drove me crazy. Pistols from long range don't take out the full automatic, armored, and covered trained soldiers.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby CrckrJack » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:22 pm

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post covered trained soldiers

I get past this by arguing with myself that these people seem incredibly incompetent and the people in Westworld that are killing them have literally lived shooting these guns.

For instance the guy getting blown up by that chick in an earlier episode. And he was hooting and hollering while killing the hosts. Both things that you wouldn't really see from trained soldiers.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby wags83 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:33 pm

wags83 wrote:Source of the post 2.) I'm pretty sure a spent bullet doesn't work that way

I mentioned this to Brian (Tutts on here but he never posts). His theory is that she put the spend bullet on the front of the cylinder in front of a live bullet and that's what caused the finger-destroying misfire. I don't think it showed her doing that, but I'll accept it.

This brings up another issue. They just got done charging in on their horses firing wildly, MiB then proceeds to shoot Delores 3 or 4 times before the misfire. I would imagine he would have needed to reload to be able to fire that many times and the misfire would have happened sooner.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:38 pm

wags83 wrote:Source of the post
wags83 wrote:Source of the post 2.) I'm pretty sure a spent bullet doesn't work that way

I mentioned this to Brian (Tutts on here but he never posts). His theory is that she put the spend bullet on the front of the cylinder in front of a live bullet and that's what caused the finger-destroying misfire. I don't think it showed her doing that, but I'll accept it.

This brings up another issue. They just got done charging in on their horses firing wildly, MiB then proceeds to shoot Delores 3 or 4 times before the misfire. I would imagine he would have needed to reload to be able to fire that many times and the misfire would have happened sooner.


The misfire happened after he reloaded, but this makes even less sense, because he loaded the bullets individually, instead of through the connector thing.
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Re: Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:03 pm

I love that we are picking this one thing apart even tho a lot of the issue was dumb.

She for sure put the bullet in the correct side of the revolver cylinder thing, unless I have a scrambled memory like Bernard
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Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:07 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post I love that we are picking this one thing apart even tho a lot of the issue was dumb.

She for sure put the bullet in the correct side of the revolver cylinder thing, unless I have a scrambled memory like Bernard


I can't wait until season 3 to find out
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby cwilkins88 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:09 pm

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post
Tyler wrote:Source of the post I love that we are picking this one thing apart even tho a lot of the issue was dumb.

She for sure put the bullet in the correct side of the revolver cylinder thing, unless I have a scrambled memory like Bernard


I can't wait until season 3 to find out


God, this reminds me. Bernards scrambled brains scenes made it seem like they thought the audience was just so stupid. Bernarnold overexplained everything, to himself, as he was doing shit. it was so dumb.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:56 am

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post 1) Maeve's lap dog

Lee
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Batman lady

Hale. No idea where "Batman Lady" comes from
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post bear and asian nice hair guy

Felix and Sylvester
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post flat nosed security guard

Stubbs
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:10 am

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. I mostly agree with all of your points.

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Maeve's lap dog had the stupidest death. That's my speech. Okay, cool and all, but they already escaped. Throw down the gun maybe, or should i say MAEVEY.

First off, f you for that joke. I surprisingly didn't have a problem with Lee's death. Lee has always been dramatic and over the top through his narratives. He was getting his rocks off by acting one out in real life, even if it meant he would "die" (he will be back?). I agree though, he didn't actually give them more than 27 seconds.

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post 2) Nothing in shogun world mattered and they didn't pretend that people from the other worlds were going to try and hit these invisible canyon buttcracks and try to escape.

First off, f you for that joke. Shogun world was to show that each park was more or less a copy of Westworld. But really, there is no defending this other than it was cool? To your point, no hosts from any of the other parks escaped

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Essentially, we had an entire episode of the Ghost Tribe backstory, just so one of them could grab a girls back and lead her into a door.

Shut your mouth. That was one of the best episodes of the season.

cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post a) why didn't she just say, hey daughter not daughter, can you please walk through the invisible crevice and gtfo of here?
b) instead of using the matrix to freeze everyone and get shot to death...why didn't she just like...idk, have them walk to the opening instead?
c) also, did she think if she could hold out with bullets more often that suddenly everything was going to change?
4) Why is delores suddenly wearing 150 bullet proof vests due to sheer willpower, but Maeve topples over like wet kleenexes. Maeve was 50% way more woke than Delores.

No defending any of this. All of this was dumb. Maeve JUST had her pain tolerance shut off when she escaped. She should have been bullet proof.
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post 5) Why did they beam a server into space. Where did it go? Mars? They said nobody would ever find it, so its probably just Superman's phantom zone. I totally buy this.

First off, f you for that joke. It's a common theory that it was beamed to Arnold's house. Which is dumb for 2 reasons.
1) People would think to look there? But I guess Ford somehow wiped the entire world of any photographs or mentions of Arnold so maybe they would be safe
2) Literally anyone in the Forge can be printed for next season. This entire season had zero stakes.
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post 7) Why did Elsie's personality change right before she got front poked by a 9mm? She was standing up, then was like, but sursly, bribes accepted.

You mean she was considering keeping her mouth shut for a promotion? I don't think she was serious about taking that offer. Hale basically called her on the bluff and killed her because she knew Elsie would be a whistle blower eventually. She was just trying to say/do what Hale wanted to stay alive long enough to expose her.
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Follow-up. If Batman lady, future Delores, has read Elsie's profile, the most boring person in the whole universe, we're expected to believe she didn't read Bernards to find out he's different. IDK, this seemed dumb to me.

I'm not following. You mean she should have read Bernard's profile and realize he was different from Arnold so he must be a host? Hale has no idea who Arnold is.
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post Did nobody see bear and asian nice hair guy helping Maeve? Or like a camera? Seems obvious that someone would know they went traitor WITH THE PERSON THEY ARE STANDING NEXT TO. "Hey guys, seriously, don't revive THIS one"

They could just say they were taken hostage. "bear" basically was. Felix was willing.
cwilkins88 wrote:Source of the post flat nosed security guard was dumb. They completely changed his personality in that last scene. So Dumb.

Or did they?! We have seen him kill hosts (right?!) on the show before, so it was kind of dumb he said his main job was to protect them, when that wasn't always the case.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby cwilkins88 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:52 am

Tyler wrote:Source of the post cwilkins88 wrote:
Source of the post Essentially, we had an entire episode of the Ghost Tribe backstory, just so one of them could grab a girls back and lead her into a door.

Shut your mouth. That was one of the best episodes of the season.

You're not wrong. It's why I feel so cheated.
Tyler wrote:Source of the post cwilkins88 wrote:
Source of the post Follow-up. If Batman lady, future Delores, has read Elsie's profile, the most boring person in the whole universe, we're expected to believe she didn't read Bernards to find out he's different. IDK, this seemed dumb to me.

I'm not following. You mean she should have read Bernard's profile and realize he was different from Arnold so he must be a host? Hale has no idea who Arnold is.


My character reference is wrong, but how does Hale have NO idea who arnold is? I guess maybe nobody EVER talked about him?
Tyler wrote:Source of the post cwilkins88 wrote:
Source of the post Did nobody see bear and asian nice hair guy helping Maeve? Or like a camera? Seems obvious that someone would know they went traitor WITH THE PERSON THEY ARE STANDING NEXT TO. "Hey guys, seriously, don't revive THIS one"

They could just say they were taken hostage. "bear" basically was. Felix was willing.


I meant "beard"
Tyler wrote:Source of the post Or did they?! We have seen him kill hosts (right?!) on the show before, so it was kind of dumb he said his main job was to protect them, when that wasn't always the case.


It's hard to argue this point if the hosts are always going to brought back, so i really dont know.
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Re: Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:12 am

No one at current WW other than Ford knew about Arnold. Thats what s01 told us.
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Westworld - s02e10

Postby wags83 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:14 am

Questions I had (not sure if I missed something or if there are theories potentially answering them):
-Whose core balls does Delores have with her? I think there were 5 or 6 in the bag.
-Did she reprint a new Delores skin and put herself back in it? If so, who is in the Hale skin?
-WTF is going on with MiB? The timelines have me all confused on what is going to happen with him.
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Re: RE: Westworld - s02e10

Postby Tyler » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:44 am

wags83 wrote:Questions I had (not sure if I missed something or if there are theories potentially answering them):
-Whose core balls does Delores have with her? I think there were 5 or 6 in the bag.
-Did she reprint a new Delores skin and put herself back in it? If so, who is in the Hale skin?
-WTF is going on with MiB? The timelines have me all confused on what is going to happen with him.


-We can assume Bendard was one of them. No clue on others, but we can guess.
-yes. Used the printer at Arnold's. She had a duplicate copy of herself in Hale?

Something from last season. When Ford had Bernard kill Theresa we saw them printing a new body. Were they printing a new Hale then?

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