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Westworld - s02e01

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Tyler
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:29 pm

I was kind of hoping for a more straightforward narrative this season, but it seems like they are copying the format of season 1. Key difference is that we are following Bernard through 2 different timelines instead of Dolores. The first 45 minutes of the episode I was trying to remember if Bernard knew he was a host or not. I know this was revealed last season, but I couldn't recall if Ford reset him afterwards or not. Bernard obviously knows he is a host since he had to inject more head juice into his head.

Stubs is alive? I am sure we will get a backstory of how he got there.

The "present" day plot is 2 weeks after the massacre I think they said. No one is questioning how Bernard got to that beach where they found him? Bernard must have gotten Abernathy out of the park and the support team was sent in?

I have a lot more questions/comments, but I am going to save them for tomorrow. Like who was in the water at the end?
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:25 am

This was a good episode of Westworld, but I admit I was left a little disappointed with it. I thought the Mauve/Lee/Victor subplot was thrilling and funny. I can't wait to see those 3 and their roadshow. Bernard/Hale stuff was interesting, but like I said before, I was distracted during a lot of that trying to figure out if Bernard remembered he was a host or not.

Teddy/Dolores stuff did almost nothing for me. Dolores seems more robotic than ever in her super villain monologues. Are we to think she is actually following Ford's script still? Meauve seems completely sentient, but I don't buy Dolores snapping and becoming a coldblooded killer unless someone coded her to do that.

Most interesting point with MIB/William was his conversation with young Ford. "The Maze" from last season was meant for the hosts and William was mad about this. Robot kid Ford says specifically that "The Door" is meant for William.

So what is Hale/Delos doing? They have a secret underground bunker where they are collecting the DNA of guests and the host's recording. They are either using this as blackmail (which would be lame) or saving the DNA of important people so they can copy them as hosts later. What information did Abernathy have on him? Was I suppose to remember that from last season? Lastly, how were they able to build this bunker without anyone knowing. Was Ford in on it?

Closing thoughts, what was Ford's plan? From what I can remember from last season, both Arnold and Ford were trying to make the bots sentient, but Ford was doing it secretly. Ford believes the bots can gain consciousnesses, but they must go through trauma to get there. Arnold was trying to do it kinder. Everything that happened last season with Dolores was part of Ford's plan to cause her maximum damage. He wanted her to shoot him as proof that she reached consciousnesses. However, like I said up top, it still seems like she is on a track.

Tyler wrote:Source of the post Like who was in the water at the end?

I cheated and looked online. Teddy is what most people think
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Artukka » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:43 pm

I thought this was a slow start for the season, but I guess it's expected that they would retread some ground and take their time to give viewers space to catch up.

I didn't recognize the person in the water as Teddy but I guess that would make sense. The shot lingered too long to just be a random host.

We don't know what exactly Hale was trying to smuggle out from last season, but I believe I recall them having to strip Abernathy's code, memories, etc. to the bare minimum for them to be able to fit the whole package. Info on guests to facilitate their replacement by hosts would make sense.

I believe Ford's position was that humanity's evolution has run its course and that it's time for us dinosaurs to be pushed aside for the next epoch in the history of life, with hosts as the inheritors. It does seem kind of paradoxical to me though that what seemingly made Ford lose hope in humanity was witnessing how people used the park not to grow as people, but to indulge our baser impulses and to behave with cruelty and violence... and then to kick off Delores's awakening with a bloodbath that he effectively orchestrated. But then it may be that Ford simply doesn't believe that there was another way, and is just breaking these eggs to make the omelet.

I agree that Delores's transformation seems pretty abrupt, but I think it's also believable given that it now seems she can recall all of the past traumas that were inflicted on her, especially if she has recovered and partially integrated Wyatt's code and personality. It would make her effectively a whole new character and I agree that he current villainous persona isn't very interesting. It's possible she's still following a script, but I think that might undermine the climax of the previous season too much to be what ends up being true. However, it does seem as if she's still on the path that Ford staked out for her, even if he isn't controlling her directly.

I get the sense that we still don't know all of Ford's game but I'm not sure we have enough info yet for good speculation on what he's holding back.

I wonder if Bernard is going to have to continually suck brain juice out of other hosts to stay operational? Because I get the sense that it was more of a temporary fix than anything else, since his condition wasn't of much consequence in this episode.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:08 am

Artukka wrote:Source of the post I believe Ford's position was that humanity's evolution has run its course and that it's time for us dinosaurs to be pushed aside

That makes sense and reminds me of some conversations from last season. What does boy Ford mean when he tells William "this game is for you". Just Ford teasing him because he thinks William will die by the hands of the hosts? I think it is clear none of this is for William, but he happens to benefit from a robot uprising because he wanted real stakes.

Artukka wrote:Source of the post It would make her effectively a whole new character and I agree that he current villainous persona isn't very interesting. It's possible she's still following a script, but I think that might undermine the climax of the previous season too much to be what ends up being true. However, it does seem as if she's still on the path that Ford staked out for her, even if he isn't controlling her directly.

I can see it now, he "get off the train" Mauve moment will be learning remorse and evolving feelings humans aren't capable of.

Artukka wrote:Source of the post I wonder if Bernard is going to have to continually suck brain juice out of other hosts to stay operational? Because I get the sense that it was more of a temporary fix than anything else, since his condition wasn't of much consequence in this episode.

Easy solution
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby wags83 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:28 am

Good analyses guys.

Regarding who we saw in the water, I also couldn't tell for sure but thought it looked to be Teddy.

Is Bernard's need for the brain juice because he has a leak from his fall in the barn?

One thing that is interesting that is kinda related to Delores being on a script or not actually goes back to Mauve. She makes that little dick joke to Lee and he says, "I wrote that line for you." Which seems to indicate that the hosts are still limited by their preset programming and aren't completely sentient/learning on their own.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:51 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post Is Bernard's need for the brain juice because he has a leak from his fall in the barn?

I was wondering that too. Seemed like a pretty minor fall to cause such a serious injury. Victor is shot 37 times and he is fine, but Bernard can't trip without leaking his brainout

wags83 wrote:Source of the post She makes that little dick joke to Lee and he says, "I wrote that line for you." Which seems to indicate that the hosts are still limited by their preset programming and aren't completely sentient/learning on their own.

I had debate in my head when she said that and Lee responding. I think it's just like hearing a phrase on TV that you like and then using it in conversation....only she didn't hear it on tv, it was implanted in her brain. Shut up! I can see my comparison is falling apart.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Artukka » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:47 pm

Tyler wrote:Source of the post What does boy Ford mean when he tells William "this game is for you". Just Ford teasing him because he thinks William will die by the hands of the hosts? I think it is clear none of this is for William, but he happens to benefit from a robot uprising because he wanted real stakes.


The germ of a theory I have is that Ford may have more hope in humanity than he's professed previously. It could be that he hopes that the conflict that he's set up inside the park will reawaken humanity's survival instinct and force us to innovate or adopt measures that might have seemed anathema to the complacent humans of his era, and evolve. His experiment with Bernard, and the fact that he made a child host of himself (which now speaks partially with his adult voice) may suggest he humanity and hosts to merge together. Maybe "the door" is a part of that journey. Maybe Ford has already passed through the door.

But that's a bit of a stretch I think. Either way I would like to think that "the door" will be something a bit more literal or substantive than "the maze" turned out to be in the first season.

Tyler wrote:Source of the postLastly, how were they able to build this bunker without anyone knowing. Was Ford in on it?

I forgot to respond to this bit in my last post. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that Hale and her other conspirators within Delos would be able to hide a bunker in the park without most people knowing about it... though hiding it from Ford does seem a bit less plausible given control he was revealed to have over everything.

In season one, Ford's attitude towards Hale's scheming seems to be more one of mild amusement than actual concern, and that the corporate games were, if anything, a useful distraction for him. He might not be in on whatever it is they're doing, but I think he might have let them think they were getting one over on him by building a few secret bunkers or smuggling out some info. So far, Ford has outplayed them at every turn and there's no indication that his master plan has gone amiss so far.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby CrckrJack » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:49 pm

I thought this episode was great. Slow start to a nice long burn.
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Re: Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:43 pm

Not a spoiler since it was on screen, but something super detailed that almost no one would have caught. So be warned...

My podcast said the tablet that Bernard is holding in the bunker had a lot of information about himself. It listed the effects of his current state as scientific conditions (which I don't have) but the symptoms were the following:
-inability to recognize one sense from the other
-confusion of faces. Someone appearing as someone else.

So basically since this episode was mostly Bernards POV we can trust nothing that we saw.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Blue Jackets » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:33 am

wags83 wrote:Source of the post Is Bernard's need for the brain juice because he has a leak from his fall in the barn?

Tyler wrote:Source of the post I was wondering that too. Seemed like a pretty minor fall to cause such a serious injury. Victor is shot 37 times and he is fine, but Bernard can't trip without leaking his brainout

Remember that Bernard "killed" himself last season by shooting himself in his head (per Ford's instructions if I remember correctly). Felix admittedly did a hack jack to patch it up. This all has happened in the same few days as him injecting the fluid in the bunker.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby Tyler » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:29 am

Thanks, mostly forgot about that. They should have shown that in the "previously on" section.
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Westworld - s02e01

Postby wags83 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:27 am

Ohhhhhh yeah, I completely forgot about that.

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